Koans

When a tree falls in a forest, but there's none around to hear it, was there then a sound?

*is enlightened*

(therefore making this almost a real koan)

Of course.

Just because we didn't experience something doesn't mean it didn't happen

tim09 wrote:Just because we didn't experience something doesn't mean it didn't happen

how can tell? you assume it made sound. But sound is only sound when there is someone to experience it.

No, sound waves exist independent of an observer. It takes a human ear and brain to translate the sound waves into something that a human brain can understand, but the sound exists nonetheless.

UNless there is no medium to carry the wave. But we are talking about a forest

there will be all sorts of animals there anyway even if it is an ant....

Lol i hate this question.

Yes.

jerryGFL wrote:there will be all sorts of animals there anyway even if it is an ant....

No, I clearly stated that there is nothing, nor noone to hear it.

shadow wrote:

tim09 wrote:Just because we didn't experience something doesn't mean it didn't happen

how can tell? you assume it made sound. But sound is only sound when there is someone to experience it.

Thats like saying that the world was only created when life was around to experience it.

Which is just as stupid

Regardless of there being nothing around to hear the sound, sound is actually there.
Tree hits floor, causes vibration, causes sound, we all have fun.

If there's no-one around to experience it, how do you know the tree falls in the first place? I think Shadow's lying to us, he was there all along. Probably illegally logging the tree to make dirty capitalist profit.

However, actually on topic, it's known (so i'm told) from Physics investigations that light acts differently when it's observed to when it's not. How can we know for sure that sound does not behave (or misbehave!) in a similar fashion? We would normally assume that as the tree is falling the same way as if we were there, it would make a sound, because it does when we're there. However, what if our mere presence is a factor?

Our presence isn't a factor.
We could tell that the tree makes a sound in other ways than us being there to witness it.

We could record the audio of the tree falling (and not only from nearby, but from a great distance.. so our presence wouldn't be a factor at all) and would hear the tree.

I can't see how light acts differently when there's no-one there to see it.. that would mean that there's some sort of reaction from it - meaning a chemical reaction from us? or like meaning the light is a living thing?

I don't know how it works. That's the point. When light is observed, it behaves as we know it to. When it's not being observed, it doesn't.

As for recording the sound, that still counts as observing.